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[隨身耳擴] 九萬銀美金起跳嘅 DAC 直推 LCD-4

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鉑金大師

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76-FC 綠翡翠勲章

發表於 2016-1-9 17:22 | 顯示全部樓層 |閱讀模式
袋鼠國嘅西門慶師兄真係『壕』到無朋友,用 90K(仲未計原廠升級喎衰鬼)嘅 DAC 直推 4K 嘅 LCD-4:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/613387/msb-analog-dac-review-p3/510
Happy New Year to you all, I thought it was time I posted about the MSB Select II I have here, mine has been delayed and won't be here until the 3rd week of this month. Have also been playing with different music servers, the CAD CAT and the Aurender W20. The Select I have on loan only has 2 inputs I2S and Quad USB, I have been using USB with the Select and playing around with AES, Optical & USB on the Nagra out of the Aurender.The Aurender W20 is about 2 years old and the USB output is average at best, after talking with Romaz it seems the later ones have had their boards updated tot he same as the N10 etc and are much better, so for now the CAD CAT USB is being used into the Select.

First up the system has the following components:

Source's:  Computer Audio Designs CAT & Aurender W20 & Mac Pro (Optical) both the CAT and the Mac are using Roon V1.1 build 88 64bit

DAC's:      MSB Select II DAC & Nagra HD DAC - balanced outputs on both

AMP:        Woo 234 customs

Tubes:      Tung Sol RP 6SN7's, Elrog (New Release) 300B's, Takatsuki 274B

Cabling:    DHC Silver Spore 4 & Curious
I can tell you that the Select has altered my understanding of what was possible, the lines between SOTA Analog & Digital have now been crossed. IMHO it sounds better than my previous SOTA Vinyl rig. I have experimented on a couple of people, one an experienced Head-Fier, the other my sharp hearing partner. Her respond was I think the best:

"I had to keep reminding myself that a machine and not a human was producing the sound".

Analog rig:

Rockport Sirius III
Integrated linear tracking arm with on the fly adjustment of VTA
Most preferred Cartridge - Air Tight Supreme

The difficult task is how to best convey it to you guys, for now all I can say is that its very very hard trying to describe the sound as usually you can say its got more bass or its soundstage is is wider etc etc, when my brain is telling me its real the analytical part shuts down as you are intoxicated by the music. Especially through headphones - its wired direct to brain. Usually I sit reading articles, surfing the web etc, this machine and its time travel effect makes it an effort to focus on doing anything else. There is no one aspect that I can comment on, it does;t have more bas than this or a better soundstage than that - its just shockingly real, not bright, not dark, everything is at it should be, there is no veil anymore, I am in the room not looking through the window.
Right after an hours round trip I have a replacement XLR Female to Female Convertor - joined all my (identical) interconnects together and now I have excellent channel balance and a good length of cable, not ideal but its works well enough. The sound is not lacking in warmth at all, actually it has as incredibly fun presence and tonal colours. The clarity is just amazing. When I think about it makes no sense either than to add sound tuning to use an amp any amp. Using a valve amp it would have to cut the dynamic range of the DAC in half, a massive amount of degradation.

Power is fine with the LCD-4 there is plenty more available.
Thought I'd put in my 2 cents regarding the Select II DAC, I had the opportunity to listen to the system that Simon had assembled for a couple of minutes. Having previously heard it at the local distributors in a speaker system and then having the chance to hear it in a more familiar headphone system really did reinforce how good the DAC and the system as a whole is. I've heard a number of good DAC's, DaVinci, Kalliope, Nagra, to name a few, though I'm yet to hear a proper analogue system. Each of the DAC's above had parts of the sound that stood out and attracted your attention, but the Select is a different beast entirely, which is why it's so difficult to convey the sound it produced.

The only way I can find to describe the sound is natural, organic and real. All the standard phrases I'd normally use such as dynamics, transients, transparency and extension are no longer applicable. Nothing stands out about the sound the DAC produces, especially in a system of that quality, which is exactly the beauty of the Select. You're no longer listening to a component, system or a recording, you just hear the music. It's a completely different experience to what I've had before.

Even the words transparent don't do the Select justice, other DAC's I've heard I'd describe as transparent in that they don't seem to interfere with the system or the recording. But the Select took it further in that it no longer sounds like a recording, more like a live performance. Everything is just so real, tangible and wholesome.

I really do wish I were better with my words so I were capable of describing the sound I heard, but it was just so different that I'm at a complete and utter loss for words. Hopefully once Simon's has arrived and he's spent a good deal more time with it he'll have a good grasp of the characteristics of the Select and will be able to put those findings into writing. And hopefully I'll be able to go up for another visit! :) Though hopefully it won't involve assembling those HRS stands and cable management of the massive Shunyata Sigma cables, though helping put together a system of that standard was an experience in itself. Learned a great deal from that trip.
I just wanted to comment about the ability of various current MSB DACs to drive headphones directly.

Analog DAC, Platinum IV, Platinum V, Select DAC 1
All these DACs have a low enough impedance and sufficient power to drive many headphones but I do not recommend it. The reason is that a highly reactive load or a load with too low of an impedance at any frequency may cause the output buffers to overheat. Even if the load does not dammage the DAC a low impedance like a headphone will cause increased distortion and will probably not sound as good as an amplifier specifically designed for such loads.

Select DAC II:
There is no output buffer, amplifier or active circuitry. Any type of load may be driven from 0 Ohms to Infinity. Highly reactive loads are perfectly acceptable. The only thing watch out for is that the load does not feed any external power back into the inputs. Different loads do not cause any increase in distortion and do not change the power disipated by the DAC. All volume levels provide exactly the same impedance. The analog input has a high power buffer amplifier that is able to drive the same loads as the DAC.

As far as if the Select DAC II will work well driving any particular headphones here are the key factors.
1. The 75 Ohm output impedance must not cause too much coloration. This means that the headphone should either have a flat impedance, a high impedance, or an impedance that equalizes the audio in the desired way when driven by 75 Ohms. I have experimented with simple passive zobels to flaten the impedance of a few headphones that had wild impedances with good results.
2. The headphone must be efficient enough to reach your desired output volume with the power avalable. If your listening volume is 100 or less with normal level recordings and you do not need to go over 106 with quiet recordings then you have sufficient efficiency.
3.The headphones must be connected in fully balanced mode. Using 1/2 of the balanced output to drive a single ended low impedance load will result in significant crosstalk between the channels and may trigger the DAC to display an Error. It will not harm the DAC however.

I think it is cool to drive headphones directly with the Select DAC II outputs. It is the only electrical audio signal chain I know of that has zero active circuitry, zero amplification.

http://cdn.head-fi.org/a/af/af610344_083A0267.jpeg


http://cdn.head-fi.org/2/29/298314b7_IMG_0863.jpeg



雖然無聽過 MSB 旗艦有幾堅,不過而家終於明白乜嘢叫做一山還有一山高,估唔到連 HeadFi 都可以去到咁嘅境界。

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黃金大師

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發表於 2016-1-10 22:11 | 顯示全部樓層
去到這地步,要聽過才能知道真的有多好了

可以YY,但可能期望愈大,失望愈大

聲音可以上昇到什麼高度,很考主人家的搭配微調功夫及喜好

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參與人數 1威望 +15 金錢 +15 收起 理由
hiyori + 15 + 15 用家心得

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HIFI器材的功能就是還原錄音,僅此而已

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銀級大師

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發表於 2016-1-11 07:49 | 顯示全部樓層
換機又換機再換機大法

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 樓主| 發表於 2016-1-11 17:12 | 顯示全部樓層
CosmicHolyGhost 發表於 2016-1-11 07:49
換機又換機再換機大法


咪係囉,harmonix/holeout/isquirrel 幾位大師的確係非等閒之輩,個個都識得擢無限金錢嘅金手指密碼,真係要寫個服字。



如果佢可以試試 e-onkyo 同埋 OTOTOY 嘅 32-bit 歌就認真正喇,最新嘅 ESS ES9038PRO 都係去到 140:

http://www.msbtech.com/history/historyHome.php
First DAC to exceed the 24 bit theoretical limits (SELECT DAC - 2014, 149 dB dynamic range, SELECT II DAC - 2015, 173 dB dynamic range = 28.5 effective bits)
http://www.msbtech.com/support/dacSelectManual.pdf

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鉑金大師

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76-FC 藍寶石勲章

發表於 2016-1-12 01:31 來自手機 | 顯示全部樓層
其實He90 都可以賣得出,重可以有後代 HE1060, 咁就知就是有人可以比數十以至百萬但只是聽耳機啦。
可能會問咁點解唔聽喇叭,可以是其實也有喇叭系統,但在另一房也唔奇,另外也可能是空間問題,有是系統50萬,在城市地方要好發揮,可以個空間會值200萬的。
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