設為首頁fbYouTubeWhatsapp頻道IG

Post76.hk

搜索
查看: 7878|回覆: 40

[CAS音響] 頗受爭議的比試:Teac vs. Mytek vs. Benchmark vs. Palyback Design

  [複製鏈接]

776

主題

1萬

回帖

17

精華

白鑽玩家

Rank: 13Rank: 13Rank: 13Rank: 13

積分
809892

76 榮譽貢獻勲章76星級影音勲章76 榮譽鑽石勲章76 榮譽VIP勲章76 精選榮譽會員勲章76-FC 黑鑽石勲章

發表於 2013-3-5 17:55 | 顯示全部樓層 |閱讀模式

如果想睇到更多76師兄嘅分享,快啲登入成為會員啦!

您需要 登入 收看或下載更多內容。還未成為會員?成為會員

x
Guitar Sings as DSD DACs Shoot it Out

http://www.audiostream.com/conte ... d-dacs-shoot-it-out

Guitar Sings as DSD DACs Shoot it Out
By Jason Victor Serinus • Posted: Feb 26, 2013


Flamenco guitarist Jason McGuire
If ever an audio event were in living color, it was the Bay Area Audiophile Society’s (BAAS) February 23 live / DSD event at Blue Coast Studios in Belmont, CA. Jointly hosted by Blue Coast Records founder Cookie Marenco, a long-time proponent of DSD who has engineered or produced five Grammy nominated records, and the dedicated president of BAAS, Bob Walters, the two-session event prefaced comparisons of four DSD-capable DACs at three different price points with intimate, live-to-DSD recording sessions with Flamenco guitarist Jason McGuire.

I happily sat in the sweet spot, just a few yards in front of McGuire, in the first session. He in turn was seated between the Sony AR1 loudspeakers used for playback. From this delicious vantage point, I could evaluate the four DACs with the sound of the “live reference” in my head.

McGuire is anything but a one-song artist. With over 30 years experience performing and teaching, he is a major exponent of Flamenco, and can easily move between different styles and improvise while remaining within the classical form.

At close range, McGuire’s playing was astounding. I often think of the acoustic guitar as a small-sounding instrument, but on its own, in a room that could not have held far more than 20 people, it was a mighty force. If I was struck by the depth of McGuire’s sound, and the length of its natural decay within the guitar’s resonant body, I was literally stunned by the contrast between the softness of his touch in more ruminative passages and the brutality of his rapid strums on multiple strings and alarming raps on the guitar’s body. I could feel the fire and passion in his playing, and imagine how vividly his renowned Flamenco dancer wife converts that fire into movement.



Jason McGuire and Cookie Marenco
At the same time, I wondered if any recording and sound system combo could together convey the in-your-face realism of this event without resorting to brittleness or squashing dynamics. The next time someone talks to me about system speed and slam, I’ll tell them to listen to a flamenco guitarist up close.

Marenco, who recorded McGuire’s performances in 128x DSD for imminent release on her site, had to adjust her mikes to compensate for the 20 extra bodies in the room. Comprising her recording chain were a Neumann U87 microphone (top) to a Millennia preamp, and two Neumann KM184s in stereo configuration (below) to Bybee Bullets to Neve preamps. These led to Ed Meitner AD/DAs and then to a Sonoma Recording System. Everything was wired with Marenco’s hand-made cabling, sourced from Jean Marie Reynaud silver/copper alloy cable.

DAC Shootout
After McGuire came the DAC shootout. Playing files on a PC Laptop using JRiver Media v18 feeding the Sony speakers via a Pass Labs X-600 amplifier, HiDiamond Reference USB cable supplied by Worldwide Wholesales, Marenco’s custom cabling, generic power cables, and a Meitner speaker switcher, we compared the sound of four units:

• Teac UD-501 DSD 5.6MHz / PCM 384 dual mono DAC ($850)
• Mytek Stereo192-DSD USB/FW DAC ($1,595)
• Benchmark DAC2 HGC ($1,995)
• Playback Designs MPD-5 DSD 6.1 / PCM 384 DAC ($13,000)
All cabling and connections were identical, and equipment supports, vibration isolation devices, and other essential components equally non-existent. Room treatment was courtesy of Marenco’s garden. What was not equal were the playback levels. This was an all-volunteer effort, and there simply wasn’t enough time during set-up to calibrate everything. As if calibration were easy, given the dynamic nature of some of the tracks, and the varying abilities of the DACs to convey those dynamics.


from top to bottom then left to right: Teac UD-501, Playback Designs MPD-5, Benchmark DAC2, Mytek Stereo 192-DSD DAC
Note as well that no attempt was made to set filters, upsampling, or other such variables on these units. Many of these DACs might have performed quite differently had time been available to adjust settings and tune them to the playback chain and situation.

Walters came prepared with files of six tracks, in resolutions ranging from redbook CD up to 24/384 and 64x/128x DSD. Our announced goals were to determine if the DSD tracks sounded different, let alone superior, and what equipment was necessary to extract the best from the format. In actuality, the session revealed which DACs were most capable of extracting the most information from any format.

After auditioning virtually all the files on the Teac – this took a long time, given that we were attempting to sink into the music rather than resorting to evaluating short sound-bites disguised as music – we trimmed the playlist. By the time we had finished with the Mytek, we had pared our selections down to Marcia Seebaran singing Billy Strayhorn’s “Lush Life” on a free track from Audio Jazz Prologue III, Jane Selkye singing “Slow Day” from the Blue Coast Records Collection, the first seven minutes of the first movement of Mahler Symphony No. 2 (Budapest/Fischer) on Channel Classics; and brilliant jazz pianist Vijay Iyer’s solo, “Human Nature,” from Solo on ACT, which Marenco recorded.

Cut to the chase. Without regurgitating all my copious notes on each track in each format, it is fair to tell you this. To my ears, the Teac UD-501, which seems to be optimized for DSD, sounded absolutely flat and lifeless on 16/44, and first began to transmit the body, substance, and presence of music on 24/384. DSD was another story, producing tighter bass, a more clearly defined leading edge, and more natural bite on the sound of horns, guitar, and piano. I would not be surprised if this DAC performs far better on all formats when its filters and settings are optimized.



Bob Walters of BAAS standing and peaking in on the left is Patrick O'Connor of Blue Coast Studios
Listening to the Mytek Stereo192-DSD DAC with DSD files of the Mahler 2, it was immediately apparent that the unit yielded richer bass, greater detail, and more hall sound. I know this track very well – I’ve been carrying the hybrid SACD room-to-room at shows for years as I’ve blogged for Stereophile – and still failed to hear much of the bottom line produced by basses and the lowest pitched percussion. But the DAC was very good. When listening to Vijay Iyer in 24/96 rather than DSD, I still heard for the first time some of the piano’s bell-like tone that was absent from the Teac’s presentation. This was also the first time that I liked jazz vocalist Marcia Seebaran, who had sounded very second rate on the Teac. An outlay of $750 more, IMHO, yields far more musical information, at least when the settings on all four DACs are in default mode.

The Benchmark DAC2 HGC was a mind-blower. Although questions remain as to whether some of its perceived superiority was due to a treble boost that some found worrisome, it produced, on all tracks we auditioned, richer bass, a much bigger soundstage, and greater height.

In DSD, Seebaran sounded more intimate and immediate than ever before. I could hear, for the first time, the reverberation surrounding her voice. I could also appreciate, for the first time, her voice’s warmth, sweetness, and expressive power. She emerged, at last, as an artist whose impact, in part, depends upon subtle variations in volume and nuance that lesser DACs cannot convey.

The Mahler 2, as well, was a revelation on the Benchmark. In DSD, it completely left the speakers behind, with an expansive soundstage that dwarfed them in every respect.

After we rebooted to deal with the Playback Design MPD-5’s proprietary interface, I discovered that the Mahler in DSD was set even farther back behind the speakers. It sounded smoother, with noticeably greater dynamics and a firmer, far more audible, and richer-sounding bottom bass line. The timbre of brass also sounded far more natural than with the other DACs. This superiority also extended to the bass accompanying Seebaran. With all selections, the additional natural warmth and greater body of instruments and voice, increased color saturation, organic (as opposed to hyped) leading edge of sounds, and the better integration of the leading edge with the body and undertones of the sonic envelope produced the most musical presentations of the session short of McGuire’s stunning performance.



At the end, we briefly returned to the Teac. I felt as if a piece of cardboard had been placed between the loudspeakers and me. That’s how much smaller, diminished, and damped everything felt with the TEAC set to default mode.

I should note that, in the second session, Walters began with the Playback Designs DAC and went down the chain. He also unintentionally tested people’s sonic memories by playing longer selections. I wasn’t present, but it seems that opinions varied widely as to which of the three top DACs sounded the best.

The second session also had six women in attendance (plus Marenco). Comprising about 30% of the attendees, this was a new record for BAAS. Their reaction to the extended DAC comparisons was, in the paraphrased words of one attendee who generated nods from her fellow females, “Why don’t you guys just listen to the music? It’s great.” My husband would have nodded along with them, if he hadn’t just plain nodded off out of boredom.

At session’s end, someone called for a blind listening test. Half the people present said it would be a waste of time, but Walters proceeded. Of the 10 who stuck with it, the only person to correctly guess the identity of the four DACs was seated in the worst listening position. Which goes to prove that roses are red and violets are blue, but in a blind world, nothing is true.

評分

參與人數 3威望 +27 金錢 +20 收起 理由
lwhk + 10 + 10 唔錯既分享!
Markk + 7
edison133 + 10 + 10 用家心得

查看全部評分

Panasonic DP-UB9000EBK, Shield TV Pro 2019, Apple TV 4K, Acurus Muse 16, PSI Audio A21-M x 5, A17-M x 2, Yamaha HS5 x 2, Arendal 1723 2S x 2, Procella P15A x 2, Epson EH-12000B, Grandview Screen

776

主題

1萬

回帖

17

精華

白鑽玩家

Rank: 13Rank: 13Rank: 13Rank: 13

積分
809892

76 榮譽貢獻勲章76星級影音勲章76 榮譽鑽石勲章76 榮譽VIP勲章76 精選榮譽會員勲章76-FC 黑鑽石勲章

 樓主| 發表於 2013-3-5 18:30 | 顯示全部樓層
睇埋下面啲comment會較全面

22

主題

2657

回帖

0

精華

黑鑽玩家

Rank: 11Rank: 11Rank: 11Rank: 11

積分
232532

76-FC 藍寶石勲章

發表於 2013-3-5 20:11 | 顯示全部樓層
嘩!英文呀

82

主題

1279

回帖

1

精華

星級玩家

Rank: 7Rank: 7Rank: 7

積分
18668

76-FC 藍寶石勲章

發表於 2013-3-5 20:37 | 顯示全部樓層
我小學程度,可否簡單總結一下比我睇睇
唔該
2聲道入門組合
Player: Fidata HFAS1  -> Lumin U1
Dac:  Totaldac Reclocker & D1-Six
Pre: GamuT D3I
Power: GamuT D200i
speaker:  Spendor SP100R2

81

主題

4861

回帖

6

精華

鉑金玩家

Rank: 10Rank: 10Rank: 10

積分
187255

76 榮譽貢獻勲章76 精選榮譽會員勲章金耳朵金耳朵學員76-FC 藍寶石勲章

發表於 2013-3-5 22:11 | 顯示全部樓層
我第一次在76 forum要動用到google translate,但係發現google都翻到錯晒睇唔明......
Synology DS3617xs with Roon, Qobuz,
Devialet Original d'Atelier;(FC) B&W 802D3, (SR) Devialet Opéra de Paris Gold Phantom, (SRB) KEF LS50 Wireless, (Atmos) KEF R50, Onkyo TX-RZ830, Sony A8F

226

主題

6564

回帖

8

精華

銀級玩家

Rank: 8Rank: 8

積分
48515

76 榮譽慈善家勲章76 榮譽VIP勲章76-FC 藍寶石勲章

發表於 2013-3-5 23:17 | 顯示全部樓層
本帖最後由 kenneth_obee 於 2013-3-5 23:19 編輯

I am not very sure, but from my research of DSD from the internet, it seems to me that one of the advantage of DSD is simple hardware. In other words, it doesn't need sophisticate DAC chip to do the D/A conversion. Hence, the performance of the four DACs shouldn't / can't have big difference for DSD playback.

Another interesting is that, filter does affect the sound greatly, especially for 44.1Hz. That's concluded from my audition experience, not from the review above.

評分

參與人數 1威望 +10 金錢 +10 收起 理由
chhanthony + 10 + 10

查看全部評分

776

主題

1萬

回帖

17

精華

白鑽玩家

Rank: 13Rank: 13Rank: 13Rank: 13

積分
809892

76 榮譽貢獻勲章76星級影音勲章76 榮譽鑽石勲章76 榮譽VIP勲章76 精選榮譽會員勲章76-FC 黑鑽石勲章

 樓主| 發表於 2013-3-5 23:56 | 顯示全部樓層
sealteam4 發表於 2013-3-5 20:37
我小學程度,可否簡單總結一下比我睇睇
唔該

簡單啲講呢個event係 Blue coast records 嘅founder 同其他人host
文中四部機嘅表現喺dsd上大家都唔錯
但都係一份錢一份貨
而文章之後嘅相關討論就有網民提出各頪質疑個比試嘅準確性
當中亦提到teac 唔同filter setting 對音色嘅影響好大
亦有人質疑river play dxd 時downmix 咗去96 24亦令比試唔中肯。

評分

參與人數 2威望 +110 金錢 +110 收起 理由
小瑟 + 100 + 100 用家心得
obee + 10 + 10 精彩Report

查看全部評分

Panasonic DP-UB9000EBK, Shield TV Pro 2019, Apple TV 4K, Acurus Muse 16, PSI Audio A21-M x 5, A17-M x 2, Yamaha HS5 x 2, Arendal 1723 2S x 2, Procella P15A x 2, Epson EH-12000B, Grandview Screen

26

主題

464

回帖

3

精華

專業玩家

Rank: 6Rank: 6

積分
8531
發表於 2013-3-5 23:57 | 顯示全部樓層
"Which goes to prove that roses are red and violets are blue, but in a blind world, nothing is true."



I love the way they presented the results of blind testing, this proves something........something.....something
Absolute Low End

3

主題

241

回帖

0

精華

星級玩家

Rank: 7Rank: 7Rank: 7

積分
29020

76 榮譽忠義勲章

發表於 2013-3-6 00:13 | 顯示全部樓層
great

73

主題

2184

回帖

4

精華

黃金玩家

Rank: 9Rank: 9Rank: 9

積分
83297
發表於 2013-3-6 09:45 | 顯示全部樓層
Teac UD501 真抵玩!

評分

參與人數 1威望 +10 金錢 +10 收起 理由
chhanthony + 10 + 10

查看全部評分

您需要登錄後才可以回帖 登錄 | 成為會員

本版積分規則  允許回帖郵件提醒樓主

重要聲明:本討論區是以即時上載留言的方式運作,Post76玩樂討論區對所有留言的真實性、完整性及立場等,不負任何法律責任。而一切留言之言論只代表留言者個人意 見,並非本網站之立場,讀者及用戶不應信賴內容,並應自行判斷內容之真實性。於有關情形下,讀者及用戶應尋求專業意見(如涉及醫療、法律或投資等問題)。 由於本討論區受到「即時上載留言」運作方式所規限,故不能完全監察所有留言,若讀者及用戶發現有留言出現問題,請聯絡我們。Post76玩樂討論區有權刪除任何留言及拒絕任何人士上載留言 (刪除前或不會作事先警告及通知 ), 同時亦有不刪除留言的權利,如有任何爭議,管理員擁有最終的詮釋權 。用戶切勿撰寫粗言穢語、誹謗、渲染色情暴力或人身攻擊的言論,敬請自律。本網站保留一切法律權利。權利。
快速回復 返回頂部 返回列表