Sony VPL VW-260es

orochicy

請問有冇師兄師姐用緊？ 有意換4K UHD HDR設備，但官方冇標示260嘅contrast，唔知道實際效果是否可以應付HDR 4K UHD等

請賜教

chhanthony

有一點可以肯定嘅係呢部機好光

https://www.avforums.com/review/ ... jector-review.14020

In terms of the SDR black level and peak brightness, the VW260ES was capable of a blacks with a measurement of 0.017 nits and a maximum brightness of 224 nits in its calibrated Reference mode using a 10% window. That equates to an on/off contrast ratio of 13,200:1. When it came to HDR content, the Sony could deliver a black level of 0.021 nits and a peak brightness of 397 nits, which equates to an on/off contrast ratio of 18,900:1. Although these aren't the best measurements that we've seen, they're still pretty good for a projector.



.....In direct comparisons with a JVC e-shift projector (we can run multiple displays from a single source thanks to our Digital Zone S6) there was no real difference between the perceived resolution of the two projectors at a normal viewing difference, even when using native 4K content.
...........However we did feel that our JVC projector had the edge over the Sony in terms of overall image quality with standard dynamic range content..........
...A reference Ultra HD Blu-ray like The Revenant looked superb on the Sony, with the projector creating a sense of realism that was certainly the director's intention. This disc was encoded at 1000 nits, which the VW260ES had no problems tone mapping without introducing any clipping. However with a 4000 nits disc like Pan, there was some clipping of the sun in the 'Arriving at Neverland' scene for example.
What are my alternatives?
There are a number of alternatives, not only at a similar price but also for less. JVC have always been strong in the £3,000 to £6,000 price bracket and their current line-up includes the excellent DLA-X5900 at £3,999 and the superb DLA-X7900 which costs £5,699. Whilst these projectors aren't native 4K, they can accept an Ultra HD signal and, thanks to e-shift, deliver an image that is indistinguishable at sensible viewing distances. Naturally being JVC projectors their black levels are impressive, especially the X7900, they have a brightness of 1,900 lumens and colour gamuts that approach 100% of DCI-P3. The Sony might have the edge in terms of HDR performance but the JVCs include 3D support, a dynamic iris, a lens memory feature, HDMI inputs that both support HDCP 2.24K/60p at 4:4:4 and, in the case of the X7900, a motorised lens cover................

diyman

除Anthony兄 所提的測试外，這裡也有另一個值得參考的報告:
http://www.projectorreviews.com/sony/sony-vpl-vw285es-4k-home-theater-projector-review/

不知 Anthony 兄對於 banding 及 面板衰老問題的看法如何?

orochicy

chhanthony 發表於 2017-10-30 16:11
有一點可以肯定嘅係呢部機好光

https://www.avforums.com/review/sony-vpl-vw260es-4k-hdr-sxrd-projector ...

好光嘅意思係？

chhanthony

diyman 發表於 2017-10-30 17:42
除Anthony兄 所提的測试外，這裡也有另一個值得參考的報告:
http://www.projectorreviews.com/sony/sony-vp ...

diyman兄

小弟咁睇

要真4K芯片只有Sony，但panel老化得比較快問題，
以前啲型號多數大約七百個鐘開始會減對比度同色域收窄，
現時就見過畫面低部變黃問題。
banding問題只出現喺4K 60P上，看一般電影okay嘅，
當然要去到VW760ES級數先有18 Gbps HDMI又真係孤寒咗啲。

單片式DLP唔係4K芯片，但投出真4K畫面
銳利度最好，但色彩同黑位，流暢度都只屬萬元入門級

Epson同JVC只屬半4K，JVC黑位無敵，Espon cover 100% DCI-P3(光度輸出減30%)，
只係銳利度喺大畫面上會差啲。

Epson JVC 同 Sony都會出現版面老化問題，呢個係好難解決，
保持環境乾燥同多用係減慢老化嘅其中一個方化。

所以
有真4K心結
Sony

有界眼銳利度
DLP

大畫面
Epson

要黑位
JVC


題外話
其實LG呢幾年都有出一啲平價嘅DLP projector用0.47"芯片，
最成功算係PF1500 LED FHD投影機，千元美金級，AVS好多用家，
當然唔可以同中高階比，而最新嘅Laser 超短投都係二千幾美金左右。

而IT最近發表咗用0.47"芯片高速shift 4次去做4K畫面(現時的是0.67"好似係高速shift 2次)
我正期待LG推出0.47" Laser 4K入門投影機，雖然Dolby講明暫時Dolby Vision唔會support projector住，
但LG同Dolby關係密切，有啲不切實際嘅幻想都好正常啫..............hahaha

chhanthony

orochicy 發表於 2017-10-30 19:03
好光嘅意思係？

上面報告題及VW260ES係SDR時最高光度輸出 224 nits，而HDR時更達397 nits
雖然報告無提及佢地用幾大嘅幕，但投出397 nits對一般家用投影機嚟講真係好光
以往電影院嘅建議亮度只係大約48-60 nits。

當然同現時接近2000 nits嘅電視係無得比，但3987 nits都已經好光。
光對HDR嚟講係一個好重要嘅原素。

orochicy

chhanthony 發表於 2017-10-31 11:20
上面報告題及VW260ES係SDR時最高光度輸出 224 nits，而HDR時更達397 nits
雖然報告無提及佢地用幾大嘅幕 ...

其實實際睇落啲4K shift機種是否都可以接受？色階、分辨率、反應速度等等

chhanthony

orochicy 發表於 2017-10-31 16:28
其實實際睇落啲4K shift機種是否都可以接受？色階、分辨率、反應速度等等

如果一般香港用家10呎睇100吋內，分別真係唔大，投得大就會睇到分別
小弟愚見，像素只係一畫面靚唔靚嘅其中一部份
最好自己親眼睇過，世上無完美的機

可以打去尖沙咀HiFi Gallery 約睇下JVC X5500 / X9500 (JVC年頭會出新機當中可顯示碟內嘅MaxCLL同MaxFall幾有用的)
Epson同其他DLP 4K機可以去灣仔HiVi 數碼奇雲度睇。
Sony就去專業啦

leekoonhung

diyman

chhanthony 發表於 2017-10-31 11:14
diyman兄

小弟咁睇

Anthony 兄接觸投投的種類和數量遠比我多，拜讀你上文的意見及解說，小弟十分認同，真的獲益良多，更勝爬其他論壇文千頁 (我相信很多論壇的執筆人，特别是海外的，許多都有既定立埸也可能是與廠商及分銷商等扯上關係，可信性有時存疑!) 。

香港寸金尺土，要投 120吋或以上真的不容易，我投 106吋 (很羨慕 Anthony兄的 126")，坐位離幕约12呎，小弟的木眼看不到2K的晶格，更何況是4K，是否是真4K也許是每個人的追求不同，不必過於執着，每種投影方式皆有其優劣，最终決定除了要自己對眼收貨，色準及對比等等對畫質影响也很大，還有其他考慮例如擺位是否合適、投射距離、使用時間(是否每天都看) 、投投的尺寸及安装方法、亮度是否夠用(同時要考慮燈泡的衰老速度) 、與及很重要的是個人預算等等…

以小弟為例，本來也很想試試新的入門 4K DLP，貪其性價比高及原生解像度有4M (以往用過一部 Benq 8720亦很耐用，用了5、6年才有問題) ， 但睇真D 發覺好些地方唔夾，包括hybrid鏡頭只有 V Shift(+15%) 擺唔到， 色彩及對比一般 (據說由於 DMD panel 只有0.67” 要大幅提高對比度有困難，使用0.9” DMD 的貴價機種例外)，色域未達 DCI-P3及不設3D等等…

至於用來打 game 的師兄自然是會首先留意部機是否對應 18Gbps 4K60 及 lag time，但個人只是用來睇碟，所以這些反而不大重要!

反而有一點小弟在買前一部投投時較担心是面板過早衰老問題，記得多年前我第一部投投是 Sony 穿透式LCD，用不到兩年便畫面變灰變淡，跟住用過部 Sanyo Z1 也有類似情況但劣化速度似乎已有改善，到了我上一部 Pana AE7000穿透式LCD 投投 (應是用Epson panels) 用了约6年及千多小時還不覺有過早衰老問題，反而 Sony 的反射式面板則在這問題上被廣泛報導，直到最近推出的機種據說已解決此問題，不過的仍有待考證。